[Training Tuesday] - Weekly thread for questions about grad school, residency, and general career topics 01/03/2023

This is the place to ask questions about graduate school, training programs, or general basic career topics. If the user is just learning about the field and wants to know if it is something they should explore, this thread is probably the correct place for those first few questions on their mind.

Examples:

Comments:

  1. Just a reminder to residency applicants, here is a link to the interview/program info spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1hnH_EhopdAqZ0DTg9eyX66E4_g5uCCsH5uwIxmKfZ0k/htmlview#gid=1533941002

    1. The user is particularly interested in the Visa status for each institute. Is there anywhere to access the Visa status for each institute?
    2. Response: Try this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ttLya-7aikuj2GZX4q3Gc_NrX5qOdUja/edit#gid=512454116

    Disclaimer, the accuracy of the information is unknown. If the user is concerned about a particular program, they should email them directly. The post was originally posted in the radiology subreddit, but the user was advised to ask here.

  2. The user has a background in EE with a masters projected related to MRI acquisition/compression for K-space data (SENSE MRI). However, they ended up going into a cloud software engineering career and have around 8 years of experience.

    Lately, the user has been thinking of a career in the medical field as they have a passion for medical imaging as well as medicine in general. They understand they have the option to work for a medical devices manufacturer like Seimens or Philips, but they want to be closer to medicine and patients rather than manufacturing.

    As the user is in their mid 30s, the MD track seems too much of a challenge and they are not sure if they would be able to put in the years into it. So they were advised the Medical physicist track.

    The user would love to get some information on what education they would need to pursue and if there’s a fast track given their background (BS + MS in EE with Math minor and 8 YOE). They are also interested to know if this can be done while working/remote and then maybe full time for the residency component.

    Secondly, the user wants to know how this line of work pays, starting out as well as maybe with 2-3 years into it (their current pay is around $280k).

    Thirdly, they want to know what are some of the duties for a medical physicist and if there are any other jobs that would be a better fit if not this.

    1. Response: For the most part, it would be echoed what ilovematchanxiety said, but a bit more would be added. As a therapy physicist (resident), it's true most of their patient contact is walking by them in the hallway, but they still do things like check their charts and their patients are at the forefront of their minds in everything they do. This may be different than working in industry where the patient is more abstract. It is not known about imaging physicists though since it is not believed they do stuff like check charts, place OSLDs, do special physics consults, etc. that put therapy physicists adjacent to the patients. It is suggested that the user may consider therapy instead of imaging if that sounds more like what they want to do. More details about the duties can be provided if needed.
    2. Response: It is not believed that the user would be able to work while doing their master's as it's mostly a full-time commitment. The most demanding job seen students take on is something like being a waiter part-time, not a career job. It is possible that some people pull off something more rigorous, but it's probably pretty rare and not the best idea. Getting a residency is difficult and the user would want to put their all into being a good candidate for one.
    3. Response: Unfortunately, there is not a fast track given the user's experience. There is a fast track for those with a PhD in a related field (1-year certificate vs 2-year masters) but not for someone with a masters in a related field.
    4. Response: If pay is really important to the user, this is going to be very tough. They get paid if they go the PhD route, although it doesn't sound like that's their move, but only around $30k a year. While a resident, they make around $50-60k and then before boards in the low to mid-100s and after boards in the upper 100s to maybe low 200s. So to hit the low $200s, the user is looking at a minimum of 5 years. This is all for therapy, and imaging physicists make a little less and there's a lot of variation with location and type of hospital they're at. It is possible the user won't hit $280k ever again.
    5. Response: Medical physics is an amazing career and there are people who found it in their 30s and went back to school for it. These people tended to have careers where they weren't making nearly as much as the user and/or were burned out and found a passion in medical physics so the temporary dip in money did not matter to them. It is suggested that the user should look into schools they're interested in attending to see if the coursework and research is something that interests them. They could also weigh therapy vs. imaging if they're considering either.

  3. Response: So basically from what it sounds like, it may be worth it for the user to just pursue the MD route since it will take just as long, but then they could potentially go to the radiology route.

    Keeping everything aside, strictly from a financial standpoint, would the MD route be a better bet to recover from the debt/loss of income for 4-5 years during med school? Of course, it is understood that the Medical physicist salaries mentioned aren’t terrible by any means, but given where the user currently is, they have bills and a mortgage that is at that scale. So they have to think of the family if they will be okay with a change in lifestyle.

    1. Response: The MD route will take a lot longer than doing a masters in medical physics (2 years school+2-year residency vs 4 years school + 1 intern year + 4-year residency + possible 1-year fellowship). If the user did a PhD, the amount of time could be similar depending on how long their PhD takes and if they do a residency with a research year. In the long run, MDs make a lot more since their salaries are a lot higher, but medical physicists do better in the short term because their school doesn’t cost as much and they are at the residency salary for a shorter period of time.
    2. Response: While classes such as biology, chemistry, biochemistry, and anatomy/physiology are not required for admission in most programs, they can be helpful for Medical Physicists. It is suggested that the user reach out to the program first before making assumptions as the requirements for admission regarding courses can be flexible sometimes.
    3. Response: Beyond the basics that are required for the user to get a science or engineering bachelor's degree, not really, unless they want to do specialized research during a PhD. Anatomy is a requirement for CAMPEP, but it's fine to wait until grad school to take it, as most people do.
    4. Response: Several grad programs require 1 semester of A&P, computer programming, bio or chem, etc. for admission. It would be best to check specific program requirements.
    5. Response: It is suggested that the user would also want to consider their work-life balance. There was a fairly recent study that came out showing physicists were the only people in the department who had higher workloads than physicians. For many, the hours are pretty rough, often late evenings. Imaging may be better, but the salaries are lower. Great jobs exist, but the user will probably have to work for a while and move to find one.

  4. Response: I'm early in my imaging physics career (in-house) and I cannot imagine coming close to a physician's workload. As for the "lower" salary, of course mine is lower than my therapy counterparts at the same experience level, but the salary itself is still pretty great and I'll take 15-20k less in salary if it means I'm happy, love my job, rarely work late nights, and get to spend time with family. My point is that imaging work/life balance does not look the same as therapy work/life balance.

    Response: Yep, I actually moved out of therapy because the work/life balance was so bad. The user seems pretty concerned about salary and patient contact, though, so they would probably want to go into radiation therapy.

    Response: It can take as long to be a medical physicist with an interesting career as it takes to be a primary care MD. Medical physicists are paid more now at $280k than >80% of medical physicists, especially imaging physicists which are paid a little less. Imaging physicists also have 0% patient contact as far as it is known. Therapy physicists have less than 2%. Assuming the user wants to become a clinical physicist still, they are going to need to go through boarding and a residency program (3 years) in addition to a minimum 2-year degree. If the time to become an MD is deterring the user, it is doubted they will find physics much better, and at a pay cut.

  5. [deleted]

  6. Response: A couple friends who've been in the hunt recently have seen offers closer to 200k than would have been thought. The AAPM survey is out of date and doesn’t account for massive inflation increases and increasingly dire manpower shortages in physics. Go get that bread if you’re new or looking to switch.

    Response: They ought to get a pay bump once they get fully boarded though, right?

    Response: If the user is an AAPM member, they should grab the latest professional survey.

Original URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/MedicalPhysics/comments/1026bim/training_tuesday_weekly_thread_for_questions/